“EU has delivered many concrete results in Azerbaijan” says EU Ambassador
Farewell interview of 1news.az with head of the EU delegation in Azerbaijan Roland Kobia ending his diplomatic mission.
You have been living and working in Azerbaijan for four years. What kind of feelings are you leaving with? Are you pleased with the results achieved so far in EU-Azerbaijan cooperation? Or there is something disappointing you?
When I look back to these 4 years, I think we have admittedly achieved a big deal of work between EU and Azerbaijan. Our relationship have not only widened, but deepened in many areas. We have enlarged our cooperation to new areas. Visa facilitation is a very concrete one as one new area in which we have achieved a concrete result. Energy is another example where the Southern Gas Corridor between Azerbaijan and the EU is now complete route from Baku to Europe.
One good example of deepening of our relations could be notably the work with civil society. We have supported and financed civil society much more than we were doing four years ago because we believe – and this is supported by our own experiences in Europe – that an active and broad based civil society is an essential factor for development of the country and long term stability. We have also started the negotiations on an Association Agreement, on a Civil Aviation Agreement.
I am neither an optimist nor a pessimist, I am an “optimalist”, meaning that I always try to get the best of things with what is available without hoping for more or complaining that there is too little. Therefore, I feel rather satisfied about these very intense four years. More could have been done of course, and I surely could have done better on many fronts. I also feel sad at a personal level. We have been living here with my family, and we lived an interesting life and felt very much welcomed. Of course, when you leave the country where you have spent several years, it is an emotional moment.
Visa and readmission agreement with Azerbaijan is due to be signed very soon, at Eastern Partnership Vilnius summit. That’s obvious achievement in bilateral agenda. Do you believe that visa agreement is the maximum that Azerbaijan can reach in its European integration? Or much more is still ahead?
The Visa facilitation agreement and the readmission agreements that we have negotiated is a great achievement. It took only 16 months. That shows that the EU is serious when it proposes something to a partner, but of course the partner needs to be committed as well. It is important to know that visa facilitation will facilitate a great deal of travels of Azerbaijanis to the EU. It will provide cheaper and longer visas, less paper work and administration. For certain categories of people, including journalists, visa will even be free.
I am happy, because this is really something that concerns all the people of Azerbaijan. Not only government or the business people, but it also concerns students, journalists and all the others. It shows the willingness of the EU to establish closer links with the country, not only in politics or businesses.
But we can even go further if there is a political will of Azerbaijan. There can be a “Mobility Partnership” with Azerbaijan, which would further widen travelling possibilities. According to the Eastern partnership Roadmap, we can support the mobility of citizens and visa liberalization in a well managed and secure environment.
The ultimate step would the not visa “facilitation”, but visa “liberalization”. It means there will be no more visas between EU and Azerbaijan. That would need a further negotiation when the time will be ripe. What is very important to mention in this regard is that the visa facilitation goes hand in hand with the readmission agreement. Therefore it is very important that Azerbaijan is capable of implementing the readmission agreement.
However this system has reciprocity: if the EU is facilitating the visas for the Azerbaijanis, it should go the other way around – Azerbaijan should facilitate the visas for Europeans who want to travel here. And sometimes I hear that it is very difficult for European citizens, journalists, businessmen to get a visa to come to Azerbaijan.
For European integration, there is still work ahead. Indeed, Azerbaijan is still negotiating the Association Agreement, and the negotiation of a Free Trade Agreement is not possible because Azerbaijan is not a member of WTO. Some other countries have finished these negotiations with the EU. So my dear wish is that negotiations progress here as well to move Azerbaijan closer to Euro-Atlantic structures and values, as it has repeated many times it is its own wish.
Does the future visa free regime (visa liberalization) between the EU and Azerbaijan sound unreal?
I was asked the same question when we started negotiations on visa facilitation two years ago. People told me that this was a dream and would never happen, they did not believe in it. And now we have it, it is reality. The EU is a strong, powerful and sometimes complex partner. But it wants to achieve results to the benefit of both parties. So, if we have a partner with a strong political will to achieve results, it happens as you can see.
Recently Azerbaijan is keeping more and more confident in its foreign relations. The EU is not an exemption. We heard several times from Azerbaijani officials that they are not going to listen to everything they are told. For you this is a good or a bad sign in terms of further cooperation between the two sides?
I never thought, dreamt or even hoped that Azerbaijan would listen to everything a foreign partner says. We consider Azerbaijan as a sovereign and independent country. Very few actors respect that sovereignty as much as the EU does because it is part of the EU’s political philosophy and modus operandi, the way the EU works. All parties try to defend their interests, this is normal. Today, Azerbaijan’s foreign policy has achieved important successes, so it is normal that the country gets more confident.
I see it does will all countries, with no exception. So I am personally happy to see an Azerbaijan that makes decisions for its own interest. But making its own decisions does not mean that there is no cooperation, that sometimes compromises are not needed, that flexibility and a sense of balance are not needed. Making concessions and compromises should not be seen as weakness; on the contrary, it very often allows reaching one’s objective.
Azerbaijan has some expectations from the EU to play bigger role in Nagorno-Karabakh peace settlement. How do you see further development of the situation?
If the population, and the authorities mainly, of Azerbaijan has lots of hopes for the European Union to be more active in Nagorno-Karabakh the EU should be given the means to be more active. The possibilities to act should be given by both sides – Azerbaijan and Armenia.
It can be compared to the image of a football game. If you want to score a goal (that is to contribute to the success), you need to be allowed to go on the football pitch and to play. But for the time being the European Union is left on the bench and sitting and watching, and it is not allowed by the referees to go on the pitch to help score the best goal we can imagine, that would be a peaceful and lasting solution to the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan on the Nagorno-Karabakh. The EU has delivered concrete results in many fields in Azerbaijan, and could offer on NK in the right context and if given the means.
Indeed, the EU in itself is not a member of the Minsk Group, so it is very difficult for us to be as active as we would wish. But we have the willingness to be active. The proof that we are ready to be very active is the appointment of EU special representative, Ambassador Philippe Lefort who is in charge of trying to help in NK settlement. Secondly there have been numerous statements of the European Union at a very high level – President Jose Manuel Barroso, High Representative Catherine Ashton, Commissioner Stefan Fule. They always say they are there to give a helping hand.
In this context, the EU has supported the Minsk Group as the only existing format for the time being. The EU has very often proposed various initiatives, but very often these proposals have not been accepted by the Parties.
Also, the Action Plan adopted in 2006 between Azerbaijan and the EU says that the priority number 1 is NK, so why are we not given more space to act? The Action Plan also describes different specific actions that we have been requested to do. And we have done all these actions on our side. As an example, one specific action that Azerbaijan and the EU has agreed in this Action Plan was that the EU should promote more people to people contacts in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict.
This is what we are constantly doing! We have spent now many years in trying to propose people to people contacts what is called “confidence building measures” between populations at grass-root level, but they have not been accepted by the parties. I do not see a real willingness to open doors.
As far as contacts between people are concerned, I always see contacts as positive. You have to have contacts even with your enemies. What is really a concern to me that during these four years that I have seen, it seems that the gap between Armenia and Azerbaijan is widening instead of becoming smaller. And it makes the peace agreement even more difficult.
Finally, I have come to the conclusion that, as the peace process in the Minsk Group has been going for about 20 years, it is time to see concrete results nearing a final solution. Maybe a few things can be thought of to achieve that. It has been a process that very much remained behind the closed doors, very few people know what is being discussed and what is at stake. So, let’s think about new ideas. Why don’t we make the negotiations more transparent? Through more transparency, we will see better which party has a real will to be constructive and find solutions, and which party wants to block the solution.
At the Eastern Partnership meeting in Brussels this July Azerbaijani Foreign Minister stated clearly that further integration between the EU and Azerbaijan is dependent on EU’s readiness to openly support territorial integrity of Azerbaijan.
How do you see the development in this regard? Do you expect that the EU one day will be able to push Armenia to compromise?
The EU has always supported the internationally recognized principle of territorial integrity, just as we recognize many other international principles as we are rules-based. But the EU’s approach is not to “push” people, it’s to “convince” and engage with people. I know that in the history of this region people have been used to very strong powers that were “pushing” people to do things, often against their will. This is not what the EU does. We prefer cooperation, persuasion, diplomacy and smart power.
Secondly, if Azerbaijan really wants the EU to have a role in the mediation process and be helpful, then it is in its interest that the EU remains credible and acceptable; therefore the EU must remain neutral and objective to the largest possible extent. If you are not neutral and objective as a partner or mediator, then you lose the trust of at least one party. And if you lose the trust, you can not be helpful anymore.
Of course, we have very intense discussions with both – Azerbaijan and Armenia, but we try to find the best solution and the best compromise between the two. And it’s not about imposing things upon countries that you will achieve the best results. All lasting peace processes have been the result of compromises. If you stick to your position without any flexibility, there cannot be a peaceful and lasting solution.
Finally, mediations and facilitations are very important. I believe in their utility. But one should never forget that at the end of the day, there cannot be any peace if the Parties themselves are not committed to it. The solution must come from the Parties at war, more than from the mediation.
Recently a big decision was taken in regard to EU-Azerbaijan energy cooperation which might help to strengthen EU energy security and increase Azerbaijan’s role on energy market. How do you see the next goal on bilateral energy agenda?
I very much welcome the fact that the Southern Gas Corridor is now complete; there is now really a pipeline between Baku and the European territory and I am confident that the final investment decision for Shah Deniz II will be taken accordingly. This is a great achievement, and I am personally happy that I could modestly contribute to this historic event. EU’s energy security will indeed be enhanced, our supplies will be more diversified, and Azerbaijan’s future and bloodline will be in safe hands, from an energetic but also political point of view.
The EU is indeed a reliable buyer, a stable and predictable market of 500 million people, and it is rules-based. There are no surprises with the EU as we respect contracts, we take the contracted quantities and we pay, so Azerbaijan will be able to count on Europe’s money to continue its development.
I think that sometimes, we could all have made even better decisions. I mean decisions that would have enabled Azerbaijani gas to reach even more European consumers, more countries, more companies and more markets with possibly more volumes of Azerbaijani gas molecules. It would have given an enhanced strategic dimension to the position of Azerbaijan on the EU market, with all the ensuing impact, importance and even political leverage that this could have produced, notably on some political files.
I hope the strategic nature of the Southern Gas Corridor will develop in the next steps, when more Azerbaijani gas will come on stream, and will probably need other evacuation routes, and will help some EU countries that are heavily dependent markets to diversify their imports.
During your four years in Azerbaijan you paid a lot of attention not only to politics and contacts with officials, but also to support of Azerbaijani culture, social life and education, keeping in touch with all segments of society. Lots of events have been held, including several exhibitions of Azerbaijani artists in your house. Can we expect the same policy line from your successor?
What my successor will do is not for me to say, that will be her decision and her policy. My tile is the past now, and a new era will open with a very talented and knowledgeable successor. But knowing her, I know she will hold the European flag very high as I have tried to do it.
And yes, it has been very important for me, and my family, to organize events, to have meetings with civil society, to interact with all levels of the Azerbaijani population. We have organized several exhibitions of Azerbaijani painters at our home to promote their wonderful talent. We have made numerous friends in the circles of artists, journalists, students, free thinkers, businessmen, academics etc.
Our EU residence, our home, has always been opened to anyone, and thousands of people have come to our place from all layers of the Azerbaijani society. My daughter has learned the Azerbaijani anthem and knows how to play it on the piano, so wherever I will be, I will have the possibility to ask her to play it and remember Azerbaijan’s. I will cherish these memories because for me, a country’s real wealth is not made of its natural resources. It is made of its people and its human capital, its education and access to social services. This is where the priority should be for the benefit of the wider number.
Source: news.az
Tags: Association Agreement, Azerbaijan, Caucasus, EaP summit, Eastern Partnership, EU, EU visa, former USSR, Schengen, travel, Visa, visa free, visa liberalization, visa regime, VLAP
